S3 Ep15 - Paul Schommer
Tom Kelly: [00:00:00] While the 2022-23 biathlon season is now over. For one of the top members of the US Biathlon Team, another journey is beginning. We're With Paul Schommer today from his home in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. The Wisconsin native is undergoing rehab right now from a surgery he had a month ago. And Paul, great to see you. And we're going to talk about this season, but you look great. And how do you feel a month after surgery?

Paul Schommer: [00:00:25] Yeah, feeling pretty good month, month out now, a little bit over a month soon will be ditching my brace. So yeah, really happy with how the procedure went. Happy with how rehab has been going so far and excited to get rid of the brace and really start doing what will be some more of the intense rehab heading into the later parts of the spring here.

Tom Kelly: [00:00:50] You're a native of Wisconsin. I know you make Sioux Falls your home right now. What brought you to Sioux Falls?

Paul Schommer: [00:00:56] So in there it's like a multi-step how would you say it? Journey that brought us to Sioux Falls. We're only here for one year. My wife, she started residency. She's in the orthopedic residency program out of the University of North Dakota. So we've called the Dakotas our home now for the last three years. But the first two were in Fargo. And then because they don't have a foot and ankle specialist up at the hospitals in Fargo, we come down here to Sioux Falls for one year, and then we'll be moving back to Fargo this July. So we've been enjoying our time down here in South Dakota, in Sioux Falls. It's a great community. We enjoy the city a little bit more to offer than Fargo in terms of trails and town and stuff like that. But at the same time, we are looking forward to going back to Fargo and having a little bit more space in our own house as we've been sharing an apartment here with one of Jillian's co residents. So the combination of having three people and two of those people having way too many hobbies, being my wife and I, sometimes we run out of storage space.

Tom Kelly: [00:02:07] Where do you put the kayaks?

Paul Schommer: [00:02:09] Oh, man, it like barely fits in my in the one garage stall that we have, I have to actually put it in at a diagonal. I mean, another couple of inches and I feel like it wouldn't even fit in the garage so that is.

Tom Kelly: [00:02:23] Yeah that is awesome. I love kayaking but you know, if you don't have a little bit of space, it's hard to store them. Sioux Falls is a great town. We drive through there often from my home in Utah back to my original home in Wisconsin, your native state. What's skiing like there? Are you you able to spend half the season there this year when you took a break from the World Cup to have the surgery. But were you able to get on snow there on the trails?

Paul Schommer: [00:02:49] Yeah, I got a couple of skis in while I was here. Thankfully, there was also some cross skiing, so I was able to get out on some of the golf courses for those who haven't been to either Sioux Falls or Fargo, Fargo is incredibly flat. It lies right in the middle of the Red River Valley, so it's pretty much as flat as a pancake for about 30 miles in both directions, east and west and then also north and south from the city. So there's really not a whole lot of cross country skiing there. Here in Sioux Falls, the topography is a little bit more hilly. It lies in the big Sioux River Valley. And so there's some like kind of sand hill dunes. And thankfully, I've been able to get out a few times this spring, kind of check out some of the trails. And there was a few winter storms as well and which included my wife and I getting out a couple times with our downhill skis, just kind of hiking and finding the steepest little downhill runs we could, which were probably about 20 seconds long, which for most people, probably not worth it. But we also had the commented after our little excursion like, Man, this is nice. We're not going to be able to do this next year when we're back in Fargo. So, um, so yeah, and there's been a few skiers in town that I've met. I did a little, um, little event at the Great Bear Ski Ski Hill here in town. There's a small alpine hill. And we actually, I talked to them and had a few local skiers come out and did a little cross-country ski clinic this spring. So that was kind of cool to connect with some of the local skiers. There's only about 5 or 6 people that showed up. But cool to be in a place where there are some trails.

Tom Kelly: [00:04:38] Awesome. Let's talk about the season past. You went into the season, had a little bit of a knee problem, had surgery back in 2019. But kind of walk us through that lead up to the 2223 season when all of a sudden you started to realize maybe we've got a little bit of a problem still going on there.

Paul Schommer: [00:04:58] Yeah. So in 2019, I underwent what would have been my second knee surgery at the time. The original surgery that I had was back in 2010. I had a piece of cartilage that broke off on the basically end of my femur, a piece of cartilage about two by two centimeters, and they went in and removed that loose body and then did a procedure called microfracture, which was supposed to fill in that area with some scar cartilage. But due to how much I'm working out all the time, that quickly wore down and just my knee kind of had this slow progression of getting worse and worse every year. And so in 2019, I decided to explore some options and thankfully our team docs connected me with a doctor at their hospital that they work at out in New York City and had my first allograft put in. Recovering from that surgery, I realized that my knee was never going to be perfect. I had already had two knee surgeries on it and my wife being in in orthopedics, she kind of explained to me like, I mean, you can only repair your knee so much. It's never going to be perfect, it's never going to be my native cartilage again. And so I kind of just accepted that my knees function is what it is, and I would have bad days, I would have good days. It would kind of ebb and flow depending on travel training load, what kind of training I was doing. But this last fall I was out for a run with my dog and I was kind of having what I would consider like kind of a bad day.

Paul Schommer: [00:06:29] My knee was finicky. It didn't feel that great, but all of a sudden it just locked up, which is not something that I would experience often. I was like, Oh man, that was really weird. Took a few more steps, locked up a second time. This. And so as I said, I'd always kind of accepted that my knee wasn't perfect, but this was like a new level of, um, just it was like frustrating to a new level because I was like, this is not okay. I can't even get in my workouts now. So I managed to kind of limp my way back to the car, got in and was like, okay, I'm just going to take it easy. The rest of the day. I'll probably just try to get a good night's sleep, wake up tomorrow, see what happens. That afternoon I was at the gym getting in a strength workout because I had an intensity session the next day and it was just continuing to lock up even without any weight bearing exercises. And I was like, This is not good. Um, I can't even, like, walk down the hall without it, like, feeling weird and and stuff. So next day I got in my car, figured I'm going to try to go get in this intensity session. Then I have a few days off or a few few easier days. So I like want to try to get in this one last good workout before I take a take it easy for a couple of days getting into my car, my knee locked up.

Paul Schommer: [00:07:51] As I'm going there, I'm like, What am I doing? Like this is it? I'm definitely not going to be able to ski. Went out and skied. Not good. Talked to our team doc, got an MRI scheduled for as soon as I can that next week. And I mean at this point, I don't know what's going on in my knee, but the thoughts are already coming in like, Oh man, I don't even know if I'm going to have a season like, I've been through this before. I know what it feels like to have a loose body in my knee, kind of having some kind of reminding me of what it was like originally back in 2010 when that loose body had broken off. And so I was definitely nervous at this point. I was supposed to fly out for Europe about three days after this MRI, and I'm already preparing for the worst. Like, I don't think I'm going to be able to go to Europe, especially, I mean, even if there's not a loose body in my knee, there's something else going on that doesn't even allow me to be able to walk normally. And so got the MRI. And what it showed was that the allograft that was put in in 2019 was still doing really well, but just lateral to that. In my knee. There was a new injury where I had basically worn down the cartilage in my knee to the bone and there was like some bone edema and they could see that that's where my problems were coming from.

Paul Schommer: [00:09:04] Thankfully, it showed that there weren't any loose bodies. And the reason why a loose body would be a major concern is, is I wouldn't want to continue to compete with a piece of cartilage floating around in my knee because that could cause further damage with my meniscus or ligaments or, you know, there would be a potential of something worse happening. And so once we saw that there wasn't any risk of maybe causing more damage, it really came down to, okay, surgery is going to be the best option to get your knee back to the best possible place. But that's going to put you out for probably 5 to 6 months. And so we explore. We talked about all the different non-surgical methods and decided that I'm going to try to do as much rehab as I can back stateside before I fly to Europe. So I did postpone my initial trip over to Europe, didn't. Did it make it over with the team for the pre-World Cup training camp in Finland and also missed the first World Cup in Finland? Well, there's two weekends in Kontiolahti, Finland and I was in Colorado Springs doing rehab. Got two knee injections, including PRP, which is plasma rich. Man, I'm totally blanking right now at PRP injection and that also hyaluronic acid injection and those were hopefully going to help my knee get a little bit more stable and then went to Canmore and eventually got to a place where I felt like my knee was able to get back to a level that I could be competitive on the World Cup.

Paul Schommer: [00:10:41] So the fact that I went from thinking I wasn't going to have a season at all to then three weeks later making it over to Europe and racing in my first World Cup of the season and hope filled in was something I was extremely grateful for. My goals definitely changed quickly heading into the season. I had some goals of like trying to be top 30, trying to build off my season last year, trying to get Top ten Nations Cup with our men's team. But I mean, once I was set back three weeks, it was like, that's going to be really difficult to try and be in that top 30. Not racing all the World Cups is not easy. I mean, I was set back just in like the amount of training I could do all these different things. And so it definitely changed the lens through which I was looking at the season from the beginning, and then as I was in Europe, continuing to manage my knee, I couldn't. I couldn't run still. I couldn't do certain activities. I was doing rehab, trying to build up the leg strength because something we noticed was when I was in Colorado Springs did like testing and the difference between my left and right quads, my left knee is the one that was injured. I actually had my left leg was working at a 40% deficit of my right leg.

Paul Schommer: [00:12:02] And they said they generally like to see that below 10%, ideally five. And it was like, I mean, that's a huge difference. And this is something that's definitely going to have to get addressed in the next year. But when you're racing, you can only do so much. So manage to to get through the world champs and then decided I shouldn't say I got through. Like my knee was doing pretty well and I could have made it through the last three World Cups of the season. But at that point, I still was operating at a major deficit with my left leg. And it was like, okay, do I want to prioritize the end of this season or prioritize the next year as a whole? And just ultimately made the decision that I should come home early, get get my knee surgery and try and be in the best position I can for this next season. It was definitely hard. I knew that I was going to probably be sacrificing some of my position in terms of team naming, which may actually affect some of the funding that I get this year, which can be like really important for athletes. I mean, it could be thousands of dollars that you're missing out on heading into the next year, but I just really knew that. I just felt within myself that it was like, yeah, sacrificing that funding is going to be worth it because you really can't put a price on being healthy.

Tom Kelly: [00:13:23] Yeah, what a journey that has been. And I want to go back to those early days. You'd been at the October camp and Soldier Hollow, and then all this is coming down in November, I think, as I understand the timeline. But you had the benefit, I would think, of being able to go home at night and talk to your wife, who actually is an orthopedic surgeon and really get some feedback. How important was that in your relationship to be able to have that sort of medical feedback from a person who's really close to you and knows you so well?

Paul Schommer: [00:13:50] Yeah, I mean, I think just getting her input was always is always valuable. I mean, her not to mention just like her support as my wife, that's really important and then kind of help navigating some of those things and knowing her, having her knowledge of what was going on is really great. And then also having that assurance from her just kind of gives you a little bit more confidence heading into things. So it's not this it kind of takes out some of the questioning from what can sometimes be some difficult lingo and trying to decipher what's going on. It helps a significant amount for sure.

Tom Kelly: [00:14:39] I think when we think about knee injuries and skiing, we think about alpine downhill ski racers crashing at 80 miles an hour and going through the nets. We don't really get don't hear as much about knee injuries with Nordic skiers yet. It is a factor. How unusual is it? And do you have any sense of, you know, maybe what would have caused this in the first place?

Paul Schommer: [00:15:03] I mean, I think there's a lot of things that could have caused this. I think it's just I think the initial injury came from, um, from something that I maybe don't know right now. But, um, that being said, it's been something that's happened over time and, um. Yeah, I think everybody's just built a little bit differently. Maybe there was something in my knee that just wanted to give out sooner than it needed to or whatever. But I don't think it's that's kind of like a difficult question. I think it's just it can come down to sometimes just genetics. Sometimes it can come down to how you train, how your, your, your body moves and stuff like that. But I think in my case, it really came down to maybe some bad luck along the way. And also just the training volume that I've had. And I think it also a component of it is that I had already had two knee surgeries and I just was completely unaware of what was going on in my knee just to the side of the allograft. So, you know, when I first heard it, my first thought was like, it's the same spot, it's the same injury coming back again when really it was a new injury. And I think that was something that was kind of surprising, but also a relief to know that, hey, the what the surgeon did in 2019 actually did do its job and gave me some some assurance for like, hey, if we do this again, this surgery could be a success and it could actually help you, um, in a way that, like, it wouldn't do on its own.

Tom Kelly: [00:16:45] Let's kind of fast forward to today. Right now, as we record this, you are about five weeks post surgery. You're looking at the season, which is six months ahead right now. But what are you going through right now in your rehab? And how how will that transgress as you head into the summer and into the fall?

Paul Schommer: [00:17:07] Yeah. Um, I mean, part of it was like getting ahead of getting on top of the rehab right now is only going to allow me to train better in the summer. I would say that my goal is to be back to full training, unrestricted, doing every workout that I can with my work, with my teammates by August. That's really the goal. We have some races in Jericho, Vermont, the summer championships. My goal is to be back to normal training by then. From now until then, I'm going to be restricted in the amount of activities that I can do. So at the moment, for the first six weeks here, I've only been able to put weight on my left leg when it's locked out in a brace. And so that's the first step. I haven't done any sort of load bearing exercises just to give that knee joint the time it needs to heal. And then for the next six to probably 6 to 8 weeks, I'm going to be limited in the amount of weight bearing activities that I can do, no impact. So that means no running right now, just things like building up strength through weight bearing exercises, closed, chained strength exercises with my left leg biking, elliptical, things like that, then moving back into probably some side to side motion, still trying to keep the impact low. That might mean that I'm able to get back into some skate skiing and then hopefully by August or probably in July, June, July, when I'm back in Lake Placid, utilizing some of the facilities they have there, I'll probably be getting back on the altar, which is a treadmill that you can use and helps take off some of that weight bearing load so that you can you can get back into running, kind of develop some of that.

Paul Schommer: [00:19:03] I mean, just running gait and teaching your body to get used to that again. And then as skate skiing altered, all of that starts to come back. You start to slowly get back into it in like a normal way. Um, getting back to full weight bearing running and stuff like that. So all in all, it's about a 5 to 6 month recovery in the short term means I'm going to be spending a lot of time ski Ergine probably going to get in the pool, do some swimming as the weather gets nicer and nicer, getting out and paddling and the kayak that we had had talked about shortly before and just trying to get creative in in ways that I can still get in the workouts because ultimately, as a biathlete, you still got to train your heart. It's all cardiovascular work. And even though it's maybe not exactly ski training right now, it all is going to help me once I'm actually able to get back into a full training regiment.

Tom Kelly: [00:20:03] Paul when you do go to the gym in Sioux Falls, I imagine you're still doing upper body work, core work, cardio work. Are you still able to do that pretty effectively?

Paul Schommer: [00:20:14] Yeah. I mean, it's always tough at the end of the season. You got to take a little bit of a break. I think that's something that I've had to learn in the last couple of years. And ah, I remember talking to our coach Vagar a couple of years ago and asked him like, What do you prescribe in April? Because they never give us training plans. But, but at the same time, I feel like there has to be some intent behind what you're doing or a focus, because otherwise then you just start kind of doing whatever. And in the past I'd always done activity and he said like, you need to give your body like a true break. And I'm like, Well, like, what do you mean by that? He's like, nothing for at least like three weeks. And I'm like, like when you say nothing, like, what do you mean by nothing? He's like, nothing. You know, it's not you're not going out for half hour jogs. You're not hitting the weight room like. Like you're doing nothing. You're being lazy. You're eating food. You're trying to gain some weight. And the idea with that is kind of like it's like a Sabbath. You have to give your body rest to be able to then handle all the training that you're going to be doing this next year. So this year, I think it was an interesting time because I actually ended the season feeling pretty good. I felt like some of my best ski races were actually yet to come, which is tough to walk away from a season when you feel that way because you feel like there's some unfinished business and you want to see what you're capable of, but still had to take that break.

Paul Schommer: [00:21:35] And especially considering like when you go under the knife, like your body has a lot of stuff to repair and that that's going to take your body's going to take a hit from that. And so up until I would say probably the last week or two, I really hadn't been doing much. I'd really been just focusing on getting my knee to the best possible place. Because another thing I've learned as an athlete is that like the. The fastest. Athletes are always going to be healthy athletes. If you're not healthy, it doesn't matter. You're not going to be at your peak form. So the focus is really been on getting my knee back to its best place as soon as possible. And now that I'm at a place where I feel like I can comfortably go do workouts and not put myself back, I have been able to get in some workouts on the skier. I went paddling this week for the first time. I've been doing some weightlifting and thankfully I've had some really awesome access to the PT clinic here in Sioux Falls at Sanford. They got a great sports med clinic. They've been working with me. They've been getting me in as much as I want to get in. And that's been really great. And I think that's only going to help me as I hit this next level of. Next level of rehab and some of those restrictions are lifted. I think it's going to be a really positive thing for my return to sport.

Tom Kelly: [00:23:01] The concept of doing nothing, very difficult for an athlete. We're going to take a quick break on Heartbeat. We'll be back in just a moment with Olympian Paul Schommer talking about his rehab and recovery from knee surgery. We'll be right back on Heartbeat.

Tom Kelly: [00:23:22] We are back on Heartbeat with Olympian Paul Schommer. We're talking about his rehab from knee surgery, which occurred in early March. And Paul, we've talked about the physical aspects, what you need to do to get your knee back in shape and what it takes to get back with your teammates come this August. But let's talk a little bit about the mental impacts. I know as an athlete you're super focused. You want to do the best that you can. You want to have a great season and all of a sudden you have this little obstacle in your way. How have you managed the mental aspects of this? First of all, during the season and then up through your surgery and looking ahead?

Paul Schommer: [00:24:00] Yeah, no, I think like you said, the mental aspect is super important. I mean, you could be as strong as anybody in the world, but if you're mentally weak, you're not going to be able to apply any of that fitness, any of that strength. You're going to be out of the game even before you're in it. And so mentally, I think that.

Paul Schommer: [00:24:23] The thing that I needed to remind myself was the season's not over until it's over. Um, up until, you know, I had come home and had my surgery. It was like the focus still needed to be there. There was still a chance to perform. And it's kind of like. Like Teddy Roosevelt said, you got to use what you have where you are. And oh, man, what is it you have to. But anyway, yeah, Teddy Roosevelt said, use what you have where you are. And that's why I think it's like as an athlete you need to be able to, to just keep going no matter what, what happens. And like once, once I hurt my knee, it's like I can't go and repair my knee at that moment. So I just have to do what I can and stay focused and just keep moving forward. So, um, I think that the other thing is, is with. The more I've trained as an athlete, you start to realize that fitness seems like it comes and goes quickly, but it doesn't. It's always there. Yeah, maybe it's going to take you a week or two, but a week with a season like biathlon. I mean, you're starting in November and it goes all the way through March. There's a lot of opportunity there to build fitness to to show up at certain times. And I mean, if you really want to be fighting in the overall, yeah, you have to try to manage your fitness as best as you can throughout the entire season.

Paul Schommer: [00:25:53] But you also have to realize that there's always going to be opportunities to not give up before you get to that point where it's like you're really fighting for for good position. So, um, yeah, I think it's mentally now after the surgery, it's just having that same thought, just trying to play the long game, not give up too too soon and be like, Man, I'm not where I'm at right now. Uh, that doesn't mean that I can't get there eventually. Just trying to stay persistent, believing that I can get there and and just doing what I can to, to hopefully be where I want to be come this winter. I mean, it's a long time. It's a long season still. There's a lot of things that you can do. And the flip side of that is like just trying to maximize where I'm at and like maybe working on aspects of my training that I wouldn't have otherwise. Um, and I think that's really valuable sometimes because when you step away from sport, you start to view things in a new way. You start to realize and notice things that you did in other at other times, and it helps you learn and grow as an athlete. I think it's an opportunity. Can it suck? Yeah, but like you can't look at it as like, it's all bad. There are positive things you have to to stay focused and try and learn what you can with where you're at at the moment.

Tom Kelly: [00:27:17] And some wise words there. And I want to go back to the Teddy Roosevelt quote, Do what you can with what you have and where you are, because no matter what you have or where you are, always try to make the best use of your circumstances to pursue your goal. So going back to that, do you have any mental tricks on how do you set obstacles aside and move forward?

Paul Schommer: [00:27:42] I mean, that's like the biggest thing you have to be able to do as a biathlete. Like if you hang on to a bad performance, like that's the worst thing you can do. Um. And so. Yeah, you got to be looking forward. You have to be looking for reasons that you can make it. And, um. Yeah. I mean. It's just such a mental game with biathlon. And you you have you can't be looking for reasons why you're going to fail. I think that's something that like. Can be really difficult for an athlete or anybody in any position. You can be like, Yeah, but yeah, but. And that kind of takes me back to a quote that I, a friend of mine had a long time ago. He was like, The more butts you have, the more crap you have to deal with. And it's this idea that it's like if you're always going, Yeah, but yeah, but I mean you're, you're mentally already saying, I'm not capable of doing this thing. And just because you mentally are saying I'm capable of doing this thing doesn't mean you're going to achieve it. But it's giving yourself a chance, a fighting chance. And so in biathlon, there's a lot of times where I could I could sit here and be saying like, Yeah, but I'm an American. I'm living in the Dakotas. Nobody even knows what my sport is, where I'm living.

Paul Schommer: [00:29:13] I can't even walk normal right now. Like all of these different things. I could have a big list of reasons why I'm going to fail. Yeah, but what is that going to be doing for me? The longer I dwell on that, the more my focus is going to go on to that and then I'm going to start to believe that that's who I am. That's my situation and ultimately will determine my destiny. Or I could sit here and be like, Yeah. I have an opportunity to get there. I can work on my core strength right now. I can develop different aspects of my training. I can take more time to focus on shooting. What is it about my shooting that's going to help me get there? Like and I think for us, biathlon as a whole, that's something that can be one of our greatest strengths. We can play this game a little bit differently than everyone else because we are a small biathlon nation and it can lead to more opportunity. And I think that's that's where that Teddy Roosevelt quote comes in, in like a really cool way where it's like, we are not Germany, we are not Norway, we are Americans. How can we use our position to our advantage to be successful in biathlon?

Tom Kelly: [00:30:22] It's a really important approach to have. And you know, I think in sport and in ski sport and biathlon and others, where there is this historical dominance by European nations, we tend to compare ourselves to them, but we don't have to. We are unique. We are Americans. We are the underdogs, but we're the ones that people want to cheer for as well. I want to take you, though, back back to Teddy Roosevelt a little bit again. And let's take this whole concept and put it into the biathlon arena. So when you go out and on your first standing shoot, you miss two targets. You know, how do you block that out of your mind? You do your penalty laps, you get on with the race. But it's a little bit like a golfer who has a bad first or second hole. You know, how do you get that back? But in biathlon, how do you overcome that in a competition to get past maybe not the greatest shooting to come back and have an inspiring event?

Paul Schommer: [00:31:19] I mean, this is something I was actually just thinking about yesterday. It's because I was trying to think about how I could make a video about the mental. Mental fork in the road that you have after a bad shooting like that. Say you have a four shooting race and you come in and miss two in your first shooting or you miss your first shot of the race. It's like you have this fork in the road In your mind, Am I going to go down this road where I'm like, my race is over? Or do you realize, man, I have 19 more shots to take? That's 19 more opportunities to succeed. And so it can be difficult. I'll be the first one to admit that. Like, there's been days where I've gone down that road where I'm just like. Race is already over. And I can tell you that road sucks. It's like your destiny is, like, already determined. As soon as you take that first step down that road. One thing you have to remind yourself, though, is even if you take one step down that road, there's always the opportunity to just step over and get on the other side. But on the other side, it's like everyone's going to be. I don't want to say everyone's going to be missing shot, but every biathlete misses shots at some point during the season. There is not a single person who went the entire season this year without missing.

Paul Schommer: [00:32:38] A single shot. And so I think that's what you have to remind yourself is like you're competing in a field of other humans. Like everyone is going to make mistakes. You don't know what their race is going to be doing. And also you want it's an it's still an opportunity. Like you have more opportunities to build yourself as a better biathlete. So maybe you don't have the best race today, but there's aspects of today's race that you're going to be able to take with you into the next performances. And if you can become a better biathlete today, it's only going to allow you to be better in the next or have the potential to have a better race next time. So it's like, yeah, maybe in that moment you you didn't like succeed, but you have to like play the long game like I was saying, and realize that like, hey, there's still aspects of today that I can can work on to become better and like because if you're completely results driven, like you're going to be disappointed every single time, but like something that is important for me is like being process oriented and being like, hey, like I don't want to come away from today saying like, I'm I had the best result I've ever had. It's like, no, I came away today being a better biathlete.

Tom Kelly: [00:33:51] Let's let's move on to yet another sport that you're involved with. Somewhere along the line you picked up archery, and archery is becoming a rehab tool for you. Tell us a little bit about the background on how you got into that and how that's been a tool for you to help in your rehab.

Paul Schommer: [00:34:08] Yeah, I mean, growing up in Wisconsin, I saw the outdoors as hunting and fishing. Like if somebody said outdoor activities, I would. That's what I thought of. It wasn't really until I got into skiing that I realized that there was like this whole other side of the outdoors that I'd never really been exposed to. And that was just kind of like the result of growing up in Northeast Wisconsin. There's when I thought of sports, I thought of football, baseball, basketball. Um, so after I then moved to Duluth, Minnesota, for college, I kind of got exposed to this whole other side of the outdoor world where I was like, Whoa, this is awesome. I've never seen this before. And so I kind of like, dived headfirst into skiing and biking and hiking, camping, getting into the backcountry climbing, stuff like that. And so that was really cool. But I definitely missed this aspect of hunting that I had grown up with. I grew up as a hunter. I had actually gone to the archery range quite a bit as a kid. My friend and I, we actually had this bike trailer that we would load our bows up on and bike to the local archery range. And I just I enjoyed shooting as a kid with my bow. I never had any sort of formal training. I just went out and shot my bow.

Paul Schommer: [00:35:24] I probably had horrible technique and stuff, but it was something I enjoyed and did some bow hunting growing up as well. Once I got into college, I outgrew my bow. I didn't have any money to be able to replace it, and then once I started biathlon, I had even less time and even less money. Um, and I definitely missed hunting quite a bit. And then this last year at the Olympics, I actually ended up deciding, like, I'm going to sell some of my Olympic team gear and I'm going to make it my bow budget. So I had sold some gear with the intention of buying a bow because one, I missed archery. I missed the act of shooting. It's a little bit different than shooting a rifle. There's something kind of like meditative about it because it's quiet, but it's probably similar to like martial arts or yoga or something. It's like something about it. And but then also, like the bow seasons for hunting are a little bit earlier in the year and they work a little bit better with our training schedules. And so I bought this bow and I just started falling in love with it all over again like I did as a kid. And, and so after my knee surgery, I hadn't left our apartment for basically one week.

Paul Schommer: [00:36:41] The only time I left our apartment was for my one appointment five days after my surgery. But other than that, I didn't didn't go anywhere. I was just at home with my leg elevated, just trying to really get a head start on my recovery. And I was like, I gotta get out and do something. And I was like, well, you know, I can go to the local ball range and shoot, shoot some arrows. And that's what I ended up doing is just kind of like, this is something I can do right now with my knee in a in a brace. And then I saw that there was a competition and just kind of was like, well, this is good mental training, um, shooting in a competition. And, and it's only going to help me become a better archer because I definitely have some goals this fall for hunting and want to be prepared for that. And it only helps with biathlon training. It's kind of like there's definitely some similarities between the two shootings, but it definitely makes me view biathlon shooting in a different way as well. So it's just something I've it kind of connects me back to my childhood, connects me to my outdoor roots in Wisconsin and also gets me into the outdoors in a new way when I have the time.

Tom Kelly: [00:37:51] I want to talk a little bit about your YouTube activity. You have been active in telling your story for a number of years, and you now have a channel called the Average Olympian. Tell us a little bit about how you've evolved to become an average Olympian and what that means.

Paul Schommer: [00:38:08] Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of like in the process of like trying to establish my brand, what I stand for. Um, and I've thrown a bunch of names out there. I'm trying to figure out if the average Olympic or average Olympian is like, what I really want to stick with if that's going to connect with people. And the idea came from like. Uh, looking at my statistics on the app, one time I was just like an average skier. Like I was kind of middle of the pack. Just an average biathlete. An average Olympian. And and. And it's like I'm average in this group of individuals that are the best at something. But outside of biathlon, I am just like an average dude. I live in just an apartment in Sioux Falls. I drive the same cars. You know, I eat the same food. Um, like those sorts of things. Like when I'm at the grocery store, I'm just like everybody else. And I hope that it can kind of connect with people in a way where they see that, like, just because I can perform in biathlon better than maybe the average person, like I'm average in a lot of other ways, and there's a lot of things that I want to share with people that I've learned in biathlon that will hopefully help them reach their goals, whether it be in sport or I mean art, whatever.

Paul Schommer: [00:39:32] And then also, like, I want to connect with people in the hunting world. As I said, that's something that I grew up doing. I missed. I'm getting back into more and more, really. I love being in wild places. I love the environment. I want to protect the environment and conserve it for people to be able to enjoy it for years to come. And, um, and I want to be able to share with them two things I've learned in biathlon that hopefully help them be able to be successful in the field to, to learn how to shoot, how to be fit, how to be ready and to connect with with nature and whatever ways they feel like really connects them in a in a positive spiritual way. I think that's something really cool that we have here in the US that not a lot of other people do, but also like we skiers know about biathlon. We've connected with the ski community in big, big ways. But I feel like we haven't really tapped into the shooting side of our sport and that's huge in the US. Um, and I think it'd be really cool to, to connect with more people in the future on that front.

Tom Kelly: [00:40:37] Well, I do love the brand and I think one of the big selling points of Olympic athletes is the fact that they really are the kid next door. It's the average person that you do meet in the grocery store, but they have great stories to tell and they have great philosophies on life. As you've shared with us in the last half hour on Heartbeat. So I do encourage everybody, if you aren't following Paul right now, formerly Biathlon Uncharted, but now the average Olympian, there's some great content up there. And it was interesting to look at some of the videos that you made around your surgery. Your wife is the videographer, is that right?

Paul Schommer: [00:41:12] I mean, I've been in those.

Tom Kelly: [00:41:14] Cases.

Paul Schommer: [00:41:15] She's been able to come with me most of the time. I'm just kind of like doing it on my own. It's been more of a hobby. And I mean, I'm really trying to figure out how to do it. I'm not an experienced videographer or editor. I'm just like doing this as a hobby and trying to to like elevate my game. But like, I mean, for the longest time, I didn't didn't want to do that many videos because I just, like, didn't feel like I could produce the content that I really wanted. It was like, I don't want to put out like poor quality stuff. But then I realized, like, the only way I'm going to get better at this is by doing it like, I need to practice and I need to be okay with like having subpar quality right now because that's the only way I'm going to be able to get to a place where I can put out stuff that I really can, like the kind of content that I want to have. So, um, yeah, thankfully, like, Jillian has been a trooper and she's been traveling with me and done some stuff, but other times, like my teammates, they're always champs of doing it. Maxime and Jake, they get roped into being behind the camera sometimes and stuff.

Paul Schommer: [00:42:16] So it's definitely a team effort, but trying to figure it out because first and foremost, I'm an athlete. Like it's really difficult. Like I can't be out skiing around with the camera in my hand all the time, but it's not something you could do with a camera in your hand. So, uh, got to get creative with getting content. Sometimes trying to create content that's more than just entertaining. That's something that I'm really trying to do right now. And hopefully, yeah, people can give me. Can give me a follow. Definitely trying to grow. Tell your friends and if you have a better name than average Olympian, definitely send it my way because I'm not. I have no I've had a lot of discussions with other people. There's been like every day Olympian has been thrown around. Ordinary Olympian. Right now I'm an average Olympian, but I hope to get that settled. So yeah, if you have any good ideas, send them my way or if you have anything you're really curious about, like, Hey, I want to see you do a video on this or I'm curious about that. Hit me up. I'm all ears right now.

Tom Kelly: [00:43:19] Well, we like the reality of it. I really have enjoyed your channel over the last few years. We're going to close it out with our segment called On Target. A few final questions for you. And you know, first of all, I know that this was in many ways a disappointing season because you weren't able to finish it out and you weren't able to or you had to have knee surgery. But there are highlights as well. So as you look back on your season, what's a highlight that you look back to and that you're proud of from this past year?

Paul Schommer: [00:43:47] Yeah. I mean, I'm like, I have to say, I mean, I had a really fun season. Our team, like the men's team, has been really fun to train and race with. We had plenty of hurdles as a team. Sean Doherty got sick a couple times. Jake had like a real battle with health and a different way than me, just with like, um, getting sick a bunch. And so I think one thing that was really cool for us was our men's relay in Ruhpolding was really, really cool to see us just kind of break out and, and have a great finish there. Um, everyone put together a really good leg, especially with Max being the anchor. He was able to finish out the race strong. I think, I think that was definitely a highlight. And then, I mean, the other aspect of that is just like seeing so many of these young dudes pushing, pushing the pace, having breakthroughs. I think it only shows that like great things are to come as we continue to work hard. And I'm really excited. I mean, I'm stoked to have these young guys nipping at my heels. It makes me feel like I got to get my act together or they're going to start overtaking me. And at the end of the day, like, that's the goal. The goal is to have these guys be better athletes than I am. I mean, that's something that Jake and I have talked about is like, we're the old guys on the team now. Um, it feels kind of weird saying that. I feel like I went from like, being a young guy to an old guy in a matter of, like, months. Um, but, I mean, the goal is to, to see these guys take biathlon to the next level, to put us biathlon on the map and do what we know we're all capable of.

Tom Kelly: [00:45:35] Well, it's a great team and a great team spirit, and it was fun to see the results that Maxim had this year. See Vincent Bonacci get his first World Cup start. So it was a great season. As you look at your rehab, though, now over the past five weeks, any big surprise that you've had in the last five weeks as you've been recovering from knee surgery?

Paul Schommer: [00:45:57] Um, I mean, compared to my surgery from 2019, I've been really happy that, like, it's been the recovery has been going a lot quicker than last time. Uh, I don't know if there's any huge surprises, which is probably a good thing in this sort of scenario. Um. Don't know if you can keep this in the podcast, but the hardest part was just like going to the bathroom with a straight leg for the first couple of days. That was the hardest part. Like sitting on a toilet with like one leg completely locked out. Not the easiest thing. So, um, but like, other than that, thankfully, no major surprises. Um, at the moment the biggest thing is just like, I think kind of knew it was coming, but it always just hits you every time, like the atrophy that you get when you don't use a leg, when it's locked out for six weeks. Like my left leg is pretty skinny. And I mean, just last night I was like saying something to my wife and I'm like, Yeah, but my legs, like, probably about the same size as yours now. And for those who don't know my wife, she's like five, three pretty tiny distance runner. And she just looked at my leg and she went, My legs aren't that skinny. And it's just like, Oh, man, is it that bad? Like my leg. So it's definitely going to be a little bit of a, um, road back to, to getting that, that like hopefully under 10%. I mean, that's the goal this year of getting it, getting it stronger and stuff. But it's always, it's always tough when you look at just how much your leg deteriorates over time.

Tom Kelly: [00:47:25] Paul as you look ahead and hopefully it's a bright road ahead, what's so really fun thing that you're looking to do this summer once you get your strength back in that left leg?

Paul Schommer: [00:47:37] Oh, I mean, I love running. I think the simplicity of it is just is awesome to be able to get back to running. So that's something I definitely enjoy and just getting out for some hikes And um, yeah, one thing I'm really looking forward to, I drew a moose tag for North Dakota, so I'm really, really looking forward to being able to get back on my two feet out in nature, um, on my first ever moose hunt. So that's going to be really exciting. Gunner Bow Um, my, my goal is to get out with the bow. It's a once in a lifetime tag. I had like under 0.5% chance of getting, of drawing that tag. So it's like I got really lucky to draw it. And so, yeah, hopefully going to be chasing a moose in September with my bow.

Tom Kelly: [00:48:20] Beautiful. And then last question. What was your first meal on the way home after surgery?

Paul Schommer: [00:48:27] Oh, I was still real loopy. There's a video on my YouTube channel of post surgery, and I was like, Oh, man, we got to go to Culver's. So yeah, definitely hit up. Culver's pretty shortly after. If anybody here has a connection that's listening to Culver's love to be a representative of Team Scoopy if you want to connect me with anybody at Culver's and yeah, I think that's ultimately maybe that's the reason why my surgery or my recovery is going so well this time was because that that post surgery nutrition was on point heading up Culver's right away and yeah, just set me on the right path.

Tom Kelly: [00:49:04] Being a Wisconsin native, I'm very familiar with Culver's and I was delighted when they finally made their way to Utah. Paul Schommer, we wish you all the best in your recovery this summer. It has been great to talk to you and I appreciate you sharing so many thoughts that tell us what you're up to, but also share thoughts that others can benefit from. Thanks for being on Heartbeat.

Paul Schommer: [00:49:23] Thanks, Tom.