[00:00:03] Tom Kelly: Welcome, everyone to Heartbeat. Glad to have you here today in our guest this week, someone that we haven't caught up with since about four years ago, Kelsey Dickinson. Kelsey, thank you for joining us on Heartbeat.

[00:00:15] Kelsey Dickinson: Thanks, Tom. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:17] Tom Kelly: Where are you hanging out today?

[00:00:20] Kelsey Dickinson: I'm out in Bozeman, Montana. I'm spending my, you know, sort of spring, uh, time away from the sport out here, getting to do some mountain adventures, enjoy the last bit of winter, and kind of rejuvenate my body and mind for the next year ahead.

[00:00:37] Tom Kelly: Wonderful time of year to do that, too. I'd also like to welcome back my co-host for this episode, Sara Donatello from US Biathlon. Sara, welcome.

[00:00:46] Sara Donatello: Thanks. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:48] Tom Kelly: And you're celebrating springtime in Saratoga Springs.

[00:00:52] Sara Donatello: I am, yes.

[00:00:54] Tom Kelly: Excellent. Well, great to have you here.

[00:00:56] Sara Donatello: Thank you, thank you. Kelsey, we'll jump right into it. Recently, you said you were in Bozeman right now. Recently, we had the US Biathlon Nationals in Bozeman. And you know, how was that for you? How was the the event?

[00:01:09] Kelsey Dickinson: Oh, it was an awesome event. I mean, everyone did such a good job. The volunteers, Crosscut the hosting organization. It was really, cool to have, you know, I mean, it's not quite home for me here, but it feels more like home. And I was able to have a lot of my family out there. I have some family that lives here in Bozeman, so it was nice to connect with them and have them get to watch me race. We definitely face some challenging conditions throughout the three days of racing, but it didn't really take away from the atmosphere and it seemed like everyone had a great time. So I was definitely happy to make it out.

[00:01:45] Sara Donatello: Yeah. Some warm temperatures. Got a little bit of a tan out there.

[00:01:49] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah, I had to start getting my sunburn at some point, you know. Yeah, right.

[00:01:53] Sara Donatello: Might as well start early. And you had a mass start win. How was that?

[00:01:58] Kelsey Dickinson: Oh. It was. That was a great race. You know, I hadn't … I haven't really been feeling the strongest on skis. Uh, kind of this year, after I had struggled with some illness earlier in the season. And, you know, the mass start is really a tactical race. And so it was fun to feel like I was able to stay in the mix and just be really smart with how I was skiing, how I was shooting. And then, uh, take the win at the end and against, you know, my other competitors who have had some really good races this year. So, you know, it's confidence-building for me at the end of the season, knowing that I could put together something like that.

[00:02:33] Sara Donatello: So yeah. Well congratulations. It was great to see you stand on top of the podium.

[00:02:38] Kelsey Dickinson: Thank you.

[00:02:39] Sara Donatello: So how's the, you know, … break been for you? Have you been recovering well?

[00:02:44] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah. Uh, yeah, definitely. I've been, you know, having some down days, but also taking days to sort of rejuvenate. You know, my spirit, so to speak. I love going backcountry skiing in the mountains and, um, and, you know, just like doing things around town with people that I haven't been able to connect with in a long time here in Bozeman. So, I think really that social element for me is really important when I spend a lot of the time away. And I don't really get to catch up or to, like, you know, invest in my relationships out here. So it's been fun having some time to do that. And, yeah, just enjoy the weather, enjoy doing some house projects. You know, we've been staining our deck. So it's not all glamorous and out in the backcountry, but it's just nice to have a nice routine here and, you know, not think about competing or biathlon for a little bit.

[00:03:40] Sara Donatello: Yeah. That's awesome. I'm glad to hear that. Well, we're here today to chat about all of the work that you've done with the IBU and with US Biathlon and USOPC around women in sports, gender equity, and everything. So we'll dive right into it. And I'm curious to know a little bit, a little bit about your background and philosophy and sports psychology. You know, where you got your interest in these topics, and you know the mental aspect of the sport?

[00:04:04] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah. Well, you know, it all sort of fits together. You know, my passion for sport, for the mental side of sport, and for supporting women in sport. Um, I was, uh, I'm trying to, you know, I was a psychology major. Or not. Psychology, I apologize. Philosophy. The other P major. And so the sort of theory and like, how we relate to sport as an entity, has been really interesting to me. I also have dealt with my own struggles. You know, in sport, whether it's confidence issues or just my mental health. And so I've been working with, um, a sports psychologist for a number of years now, and it's been hugely helpful for me, and I can see how it will be. It could be really helpful for others and, for just making sport, uh, an experience that, you know, helps you grow as a person. And that, you know, makes not necessarily happier, but it makes it more fulfilling for everyone. And like, similarly, that sort of leads in, you know, I'm always thinking about how we can make sport a more welcoming, inclusive space for other for anyone that wants to enjoy it. And I think historically, sport has been, uh, the people who have benefited the most from sport have been kind of in selective, selective groups of people that have, you know, the financial or maybe cultural privilege of being able to access it.

[00:05:36] Kelsey Dickinson: And, so looking at women in sport, I've had some experiences when I was younger that made me realize that, wow, like, sport doesn't necessarily put women and men on an equal level, you know. And it's not necessarily that anyone is trying to discriminate against women, but it just sort of exists in sort of the fabric of the culture. And so early on, I realized that for me to find meaning in sport, I really wanted to make it a place where, you know, my teammates or anyone who, like, I looked at some of my female teammates who wanted to go on to be coaches, and I wanted them to have the best experience possible. I also was really lucky to have a lot of, um, really strong women mentors in my life. And so I just felt this like I've always felt this purpose that, um, that, you know, my impact on sport. Like, I think I'm rambling a little bit at the end of the day, looking back on my career, I would rather be remembered for making sport a better place for women than for necessarily like my results. And so I think that's always been driving me in this space. And the reason why I've gotten involved with a lot of different organizations around this. So that's a long, long, roundabout way to get to your point. Maybe.

[00:06:53] Sara Donatello: No, no, that's all fantastic to hear how you know from your childhood growing up and coming through sport and experiences in college. And, you know, everybody that you've talked to has kind of molded and shaped your experiences. And now you're trying to impact, you know, everybody else behind you. And that's just that's really great. And one of the ways that you've done that is through the Women's Ski Co, excuse me, the Women's Ski Coaching Association. So you know we're going to try a little bit about that. And I think that's a really, really important thing that you've been doing. And I'm excited to hear your experiences.

[00:07:26] Tom Kelly: You know Kelsey, when I was prepping for this, I went back and listened to the podcast we did, which was just at the start of the season in 2021, almost four years ago. And it was interesting to hear you talk about, getting started in the Women at Ski Coaching Association, which you did, along with your college coach, Maria Stuber. Can you tell us a little bit about that organization and what has happened now in the last four years since you and Maria started that?

[00:07:49] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah, so, you know, Maria had the idea for the women's. She's had the idea for it for a long time. And in 2018, when I graduated college, that's when she approached me and was like, hey, you know, would you like to be involved in this? Would you like to help me make this an actual thing that's not just living inside my head? And I was like, yeah, of course. Like, I'll do whatever it takes. And Maria, you know, as background, was my coach in college for the last few years of college. And so we had a really, really positive relationship. And I felt like, you know, she always looked out for me and really supported me doing biathlon, even though it wasn't necessarily the priorities weren't in alignment with, you know, NCAA skiing. And I also … I mean, she's also very transparent with me about, you know, her struggles as a woman, um, in the coaching space and all that. And she knew that I had an interest in this area, especially with, like, you know, I think I wrote one of my college papers on why it's more important or why it should be important that we get more women into positions of coaching and support staff and wax techs. You know, in the ski community. So I had already been thinking about this through a lot of my college career. So when she approached me, I was like, yeah, of course, like, this is a no-brainer.

[00:09:01] Kelsey Dickinson: And I wanted a little bit of a passion project while I was pursuing biathlon full time. So, we started that in 2018. And, you know, everyone that is involved with the organization, you know, whether it's on our board or, um, uh, people who kind of help us, it's all pretty much it's all on a volunteer basis. So no, everyone's doing this because it's a passion of theirs. And … but we've actually been pretty successful in, like, growing our membership and having programs. I'm trying to think, you know, in 2021, it's not that long ago, but it feels like a long time. I'm trying to remember what programs we were running then. I think we were just starting to get into, You know, running, like, our GearUp program. And also, I think Maria was laying the groundwork for what would become the Trail to Gold program with US Ski and Snowboard. And so GearUp is a program that, Hailey Swirbul and I … Hailey, former cross-country skier for US Ski Team that we were taking on together and that was to partner with ski industry brands, with women coaches because we saw that, you know, the ski industry being a major barrier for women coaches in, you know, in this space.

[00:10:20] Kelsey Dickinson: And so our goal was to get them the most current gear, get them education, get them network, um, like contacts and networking so that they would feel comfortable asking, you know, advocating for themselves, getting the right supplies that they need and just having like that, that connection and that network that um, for some people, like especially men in the sport, is sometimes a little more inherent that you've already made those connections. So that we ran … we've run for for three years and we didn't run it last year, this past year because, we kind of have had a little we've had some, I would say bandwidth issues. We haven't had as much capacity for running programs as we have the last few years. So we weren't able to run it, but we definitely intend to bring it back in the future. And then Maria was very instrumental in the Trail to Gold program, um, starting, which you wouldn't necessarily know if you look at the NNF website because they've done a really good job, like building it into what it is now. But it started because Maria, you know, she was coaching at the College of Saint Scholastica. She brought in Kristen Bourne as her assistant coach. Kristen, who is now the D team coach for US Ski and Snowboard. And they were able to get this fellowship called the Tara VanDerveer Fellowship from the Women's Sports Foundation.

[00:11:39] Kelsey Dickinson: And as you know, the it's it was like a it's like a professional development grant and there's a lot of requirements for it. And they went to US Ski Team and they were like, hey, we have this money for professional development. Would it be okay if Kristen came with you guys on the World Cup and did some coaching on the World Cup and they, you know, worked out? I think there were either two two-week long trips or two two-week long trips that Kristen went on to coach with them. And kind of after that, they were like, oh, I think they even maybe it was they did it the second the year afterwards too. And they're like, this is actually a really good idea for mentorship and for bringing women coaches into the space formerly, um, to train them, because I think one of the things the US Ski Team has done a really good job of lately is developing like domestic US coaching talent. And so for them, this was like a really awesome pipeline for getting women coaches over to Europe, getting experience in the team environment. With wax tech, you know that as a part of the program, they kind of shadow in a lot of different areas and are involved in a lot of different areas from wax, you know, being in the wax truck to coaching on course and sort of all of that in between.

[00:12:48] Kelsey Dickinson: So, that, you know, became a more formal program and it really solidified when the there's a Trail to Gold book came out. And that's the book about … that was produced by all of the female Olympians in cross country from the last … I don't remember how many Olympics, but, you know, going back a long ways. And they approached us and they're like, hey, we want to we have the proceeds from this book. We would like to partner with you, um, in using these for something. And that was sort of we were like, well, you know, we're trying to start this program. US Ski Team is interested in it. So then it kind of came together into what it is now. And it's been running successfully for I think three years and so that's been huge in terms of like getting, I mean, for someone who is coaching a lot domestically, to have that on your resume that you've gone and coached on the World Cup in Europe is huge for getting jobs, for just building your experience. And one thing we've seen is like, there's a lot of tropes around women in coaching, not just in skiing, but kind of everywhere that like, oh, there aren't enough women, there aren't, you know, there aren't many women and they don't really want a coach or they're more concerned with like starting a family or all of that.

[00:13:59] Kelsey Dickinson: And what we found is that's like, totally not the case. Like, there are women out there that want a coach, that want to coach at the elite level, um, and have a lot of passion and interest for it. And it's just a matter of like connecting them with the resources to help empower them within their careers. Um, and so the trail to gold has been huge in that. And US Biathlon has recently launched their own, you know, Women in Coaching Program, which we, I know we will get into a little bit later. But yeah, I think Trail to Gold has been a really you know, it's not it's not perfect, obviously. You know, there's they're always still working to improve it themselves. Um, but it's been a really great example. And I think Kristen Bourne, you know, she has been absolutely instrumental in the success of that, going from coaching at Scholastica with Maria to then becoming a D team coach. And it's also her passion on top of her responsibilities as a coach to kind of mentor and bring up those behind her. And I really think she deserves a ton of a ton of recognition for that.

[00:14:56] Tom Kelly: So pretty amazing program. The Trail to Go Gold program is really near and dear to me. I worked for the US Ski Team for many years, and I was involved with the US ski team back in the 70s when frankly, it was a brand new sport for women at the time. Really kind of hard to think back that 50 years ago, women were only just getting in the Olympics, in cross country and ultimately in biathlon as well. But the point that that really strikes me is, is, is innovative. Here is how you guys have been able to collaborate cross-sport collaboration between biathlon and cross country. Do you also just kind of looking ahead? Do you see any other possible sports that could benefit from the initiatives that you've been undertaking?

[00:15:39] Kelsey Dickinson: Oh, definitely. And I think, you know, I will admit or not like, recognize that like we went, you know, Maria talked to a lot of other sport organizations that had sort of women and coaching associations. And when she was getting ideas for starting the Women's Ski Coaches Association. So I know she talked to rugby. I know soccer has stuff going on at … rowing's starting their own program. So there's a lot of these cropping up, you know, in a lot of sports. But I think it's a model certainly that a lot of sports, especially Olympic sports that, um, that have that aren't necessarily, uh, raking in. I mean, I think there's maybe a different model for, like, uh, sports that have a lot of money versus maybe some of these Olympic sports that are just trying to get by, you know, and I think budget is often cited as like a big reason for not not taking the initiative to bring women in, you know, because it seems like initially it's a larger upfront cost. And I, you know, I would argue that down the road it actually is going to pay off a lot. But, um, I think it's, you know, there's the reality of, um, of the financial situation of some of these organizations. But, um, I think, you know, we've seen with, with US Ski Team, the it's been helpful for them to have these women on the World Cup. And it's also been, you know, really I mean, you can see the level of sport, um, of cross-country in the US is just like, you know, it's gotten really high. So I think it's, you know, it's adding, it's part of that, that momentum that's building.

[00:17:08] Tom Kelly: Cool. One other point before we move on to talk about the US Biathlon women's coaching initiative. I just want to talk about that book again that you had mentioned. What an amazing project that was. And for folks who are not familiar with Trail to Gold, it's available from NNF. You can get it on their website, probably other sources as well. But what the team did was get together all of the female athletes from the US who had competed at the Olympics since 1972 and had them write about their experiences and what. Any other additional thoughts? Kelsey, you want to share about that book and what it means in sport?

[00:17:42] Kelsey Dickinson: Oh yeah, I mean, I have a copy of it on my coffee table, so I often flip through it. I think it's really I think, you know, as a woman in sport, it's really important to to let the experiences of those that came before you inform kind of how you move forward. And I always, you know, I it to read about their experiences and also just know what they've gone through in order to have the success they did. I think it's just inspiring. And I think we should continue to elevate those voices. And, um, that book is a really great way to do so. I also really believe in, you know, in sort of a roundabout way, like in a plug for buying the book, like decreasing the pay gap between women and men's sports. And it's always really good to support female voices, female writers in the sports space. So I think, you know, I would encourage you to, to go. Anyone listening to this podcast to go take a look at it and add it to their collection because it's a really, really well done book.

[00:18:47] Tom Kelly: Yeah, it's a good one. So check it out at NNF. Before we go to the break, I want to talk about the US Biathlon Women's Coaching initiative. We've had Sara Studebaker Hall on the podcast several times talking about initiatives for officials and for coaches. But you're starting to get some real traction with this program, aren't you?

[00:19:04] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah, I think that, they're really, you know, US Biathlon understands that it to be to be a modern, you know, innovative sports organization like bringing in women voices and increasing diversity and is only going to benefit, um, the success of the sport and also the bottom line, you know, and so I think what US Biathlon is doing is just really important and essential for their long term success. And they see I think they're starting to see how it's, how it is adding to that and the positive, you know, feedback loops that they're getting in other spaces, whether it's team culture or just like creating more coaches in the community that are then growing their junior programs. So I think the it's sort of a nexus that is influencing a lot of different areas of development, um, within the sport. So, yeah, I'm really glad that they're investing in this and taking the time to, um, to try and, you know, really. Um, yeah. Put their put their weight behind this program succeeding.

[00:20:11] Tom Kelly: Kelsey, if women want to get involved in this program, what can they do?

[00:20:16] Kelsey Dickinson: Well, I mean, you can apply for sure. And I also put the you know, … I have encouraged many of people that I know to apply, even if they don't have that specific biathlon experience. I think that's a huge key. You know, US Biathlon has this. I often draw the parallel with the Project X, you know, the X Team program. I think this is … I consider this Project X for coaches. It's I look at it as it could be talent transfer. It could be, you know, so if you're coaching in cross country and you have an interest in doing biathlon or getting international coaching experience, I think this is a really good opportunity to do that. And you will see there's a lot of parallels. Like obviously you're not going to be needing to test classic kick wax. But I think it's a really good way to just, you know, have that experience at the highest level. And so I often encourage people who don't have shooting coaching experience to apply because, we biathlon also needs really great ski coaches to succeed. So yeah. So that would be you know my plug for that also. You know, I think it's worth recognizing that, uh, there's, you know, some, some study or statistic out there that men, uh, applying for a job only need to have like 80%. I feel like they have 80% or less of the qualifications in order to apply. And women often need to feel like they have to have 100% or 90, 99 to 100% of the qualifications. And so I often, you know, encourage anyone, you know, just it's just like it's worth it. It's worth putting your name in the hat, also letting us know that you're interested and that you want opportunities because even if you don't get, you know, a spot in the, uh, coaching initiative on the first round, like it's important to to let them know you're out there and let them know that you, you want to, you know, get involved in the sport so well.

[00:22:08] Tom Kelly: We will put links into the show notes. You can just go to the blog post at usbiathlon.org and pick it up there. We're going to take a short break and we're going to come back with Kelsey Dickinson when we do. We're going to talk about gender equity and also the work that Kelsey's been doing with the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee. We'll be right back on Heartbeat.

[00:22:40] Tom Kelly: We're back again on heartbeat, the US Biathlon podcast. Our guest today coming to us live from Bozeman, Montana, is Kelsey Dickinson. Kelsey, great to have you on, Sara. We're going to talk next about gender equity right.

[00:22:46] Sara Donatello: Yes, yes. We've touched on all all things Cross Country Trail to Gold Women's Ski Coaching Association. And we're going to transition a little bit to the International Biathlon Union – IBU. You do work as a gender equity athlete ambassador. So I'm curious if you could tell us a little bit about what work you do as, as an athlete ambassador with the IBU?

[00:23:07] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah, I well, I will actually say that my time as an athlete and ambassador has recently come to an end. I served my two terms, with the IBU Athlete ambassador Group, and it was really a cool experience, really rewarding. And now I've transitioned, I actually applied and was accepted to be on the IBU Diversity, Equity and Inclusion working Group. And so moving forward, that's going to be where I put a lot of my time at the IBU level. But in terms of the athlete ambassador group, it's really cool what the IBU did creating, you know, there's three different groups. There's the sustainability group, the integrity group, which actually Chloe Levins is a member of, and then the gender equity group, that I've been on for the last four years. And Susan was on it for two of those my first two years. So it was cool to work on that with her. Um, and, you know, I think what I got out of it is I made a lot of connections with within, you know, my peers, um, and fellow competitors in the IBU. Around this space and it was fun. It was cool to have this platform to talk about something I'm really passionate about with people from countries where, you know, they either look at this differently as an issue. And, you know, maybe we come to the same conclusions, but they're seeing it play out in much different ways in their home countries.

[00:24:31] Kelsey Dickinson: And so their needs are different. And so I think it was helpful for me because I sometimes I can be a little like, bullheaded, like I'm pursuing, you know, this direction and it's helpful to listen and be like, oh, like, this is actually, you know, this could be maybe better done in a different way or more effective, um, or, you know, impact more people, um, by listening to others. I was really lucky I was able to speak at a IBU and the IBSF, the International Bobsled and Skeleton Federation had a joint conference on gender equity in like a couple of years ago and myself and one of the other ambassadors, Titus Clark from Great Britain. We were able to give a presentation and I remember, you know, beforehand in the presentation I had a slide that had a picture of the US Biathlon Team from I don't remember what year it was, you know, some years before. And there were, you know, just in that picture there were no women staff. It was just the four athletes there, and I put up that picture to be like, and I had asked Max Cobb beforehand, I was like, just … I was just like, I hope it's okay if I use this. And he was supportive of it because I just wanted to give the example, like look like for someone, you know, looking at this photo, it's it just it visually, it doesn't really, it's not it's very visually apparent how what an organisation is doing and what they're putting their money and their time into in terms of developing staff and developing a diverse staff.

[00:25:59] Kelsey Dickinson: And, you know, US Biathlon was making the choices that they could make. And but I just thought it really represented, um, the impact that could have on someone who wants to see themselves coaching at the highest level or competing at the highest level. And that's always really informed, kind of, you know, and again, this is not to talk ill of anyone that was, you know, working with US Biathlon and the staff is all really great. It's just more of like it gives the visual context for this. So anyway, that was part of that talk that I did with the IBU and then other than that, we did various social media projects, um, highlighting women in sport, highlighting coaches, um, that were working in the IBU and which has been really cool because in the last four years, I think I went from not really seeing very many women in the coaching box to now I see more. And I think that isn't necessarily because of the Athlete Ambassador group, but really a lot of credit, um, is due to the IBU for investing in getting more women coaches and really diversifying staff and, and, and getting resources to these countries so that they can hire women, you know, similarly to how FIS gives extra bibs to women coaches for countries if they bring women.

[00:27:16] Kelsey Dickinson: The IBU has a lot of, a lot of grant money that they're giving out. And I know that US Biathlon has benefited from from some of those grants to be able to hire and support women, um, coaches and staff. So, all of this to say it was it's been really cool being a part of and seeing how innovative the IBU is in this space with all, you know, whether it is whichever three areas, whether it's sustainability, integrity or gender equity, um, seeing what they're what they're doing just to push this envelope forward. And now looking into the diversity, equity and inclusion space, I mean, this is a really interesting time, you know, at least for in our country where there's a lot of backlash against DEI, it's really encouraging for me to be a part of an organization that is still pushing forward on this and sees that increasing all of these aspects, including accessibility, is. They see it as really a huge part of their success in the long-term. And so I am. I'm glad that they're expanding it from gender equity to diversity, equity and inclusion, because I do think that, uh, the intersection of all of these three things, um, you know, it's actually going to be more effective to look at it in terms of, of race equity, you know, ability and um, and like financial position, like to look at all of these aspects in the long term, I think will benefit the sport a lot more. So that's my really long-winded explanation.

[00:28:45] Tom Kelly: Kelsey, you got into the sport as an athlete to enjoy competition, to have fun in the sport. Somewhere along the line, though, you became an advocate, you became an ambassador. You became a representative of other athletes. What motivates you to go beyond your athletic desire to to really engage and spend your time to help others?

[00:29:09] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah, I, I don't know, I think I really struggle with sport being a selfish endeavor in a lot of ways. And I when I am just focusing on me and my recovery and all that, I find that I'm a lot less. I'm feeling a lot less happy than if I have other projects. And I am very lucky that, you know, in my ability, like the The Green Racing Project in Craftsbury helps me, you know, I am able to take on these other projects. As part of some of my volunteer work that I do with the with the group. So it has there's been a very, um, harmonious relationship between me, uh, trying to be an advocate and, um, do work in this space and also, um, pursue my athletic career. But, yeah, it just gives me more meaning, you know, at the end of the day. And, and I, like I said earlier, you know, while we were recording that, I think to me, the I find a lot more meaning in, in making this space somehow better for athletes coming up behind me.

[00:30:10] Tom Kelly: So can you catalog for us a little bit the roles that you have either served in or are serving now with USOPC, with IBU, with US Biathlon. And just give us a little checklist of what you've been doing.

[00:30:25] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah, sure. I can definitely do that. Um, well, with IBU, like now, I'm serving on the diversity, Equity and Inclusion working group. I was an athlete ambassador for four years before that in gender equity. Um, and then with the USOPC, I am on the Team USA Athletes Commission. I was just elected, um, on, you know, on behalf of biathlon to serve in sort of the broader athlete representation there and I'm also on the USOPC Women's Health Task Force, and I've been doing that for the last, I think three years now, maybe four, and then I've also served on a couple other small, task forces for the USOPC. I often just volunteer for things because it gives me really interesting experiences to get a look into how the USOPC operates. And then on the US Biathlon level. I am a member of the … I'm an athlete representative on the board of directors. And this is my third year doing that. And then, uh, through that, I'm also on a variety of committees and working groups. Um, and, and, you know, as part of that work. And I work with the Women's Ski Coaches Association?

[00:31:42] Tom Kelly: Can you tell us a little bit more about the USOPC Women's Health Task Force?

[00:31:48] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah. So the USOPC Women's Health Task Force is a group of practitioners, coaches like people from all different disciplines within the sport ecosystem. We have, you know, it's it's co-chaired by Amber Donaldson from the US. She's the director of sport and I feel really bad that I am blanking on this, but she's kind of the head of sports medicine. I would say. And then, Doctor Kate Ackerman, who works with Boston Children's and has been really instrumental in, uh, a lot of the, uh, yeah, women's health research, um, is, you know, been one person. There are many people, but has been one person who has been really active in that space. And then there's, um, we have everyone from, uh, mental health professionals to dieticians you know, in the group and there's I'm one of, I think, 3 or 4 athlete representatives on that group. And, I'm sure maybe you can plug actually the Women's Health Hub in this podcast. I'll give you the link for it because as you know, as part of the work that we've done with the Women's Health Task Force, we've had monthly webinars on all kinds of topics within the women's health space.

[00:33:09] Kelsey Dickinson: And so and those are all, um, you know, you can watch those. And there's one, there's like one pagers that have been developed off of a lot of them. And so it's really cool, some of the experts that have come in to talk about everything from like breast health to navigating to when you are doing IVF and like wanting to start a family and things that are really important to athletes that haven't been talked about. I recently did was did one of the webinars, with Sam Benzing, who's the assistant coach at Montana State, and we were talking about the coach-athlete relationship and how to, you know, communicate effectively, advocate for yourself within that. And have, you know, just better outcomes, both on that coach side and the athlete side. And so I think it's a really great resource. For now, I mean, not just female athletes for everyone just to learn more about this space in an area that has been kind of under-researched up until now.

[00:34:09] Tom Kelly: So with all that you have going on, do they all tie together? Are you able to use some of the learnings you have from one role over in another role and kind of make it work double?

[00:34:22] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah, I mean, in some ways, like I, I do find a lot of joy in like connecting people that are doing similar work in different spaces. And I think a lot of, you know, for example, with the Women's Ski Coaches Association, not this last fall, but the fall before we hosted a conference in Park City called the Women in Ski Coaching Summit. And we had a lot of people coming from that. And I … a lot of our speakers were people that I knew from different areas, or Maria like that. We used our connections in the women's sports space to kind of bring in a whole variety of speakers, to develop a really great, schedule for the women that came. So, yeah, I think there certainly is overlap. And it's, you know, for example, like Sam Benzing, you know, she's someone I mean, I went to, I went to school with her, but she's doing a lot of work in the coaching space, and, I knew she would be perfect to bring on, um, to the women's health webinars because she is really passionate about communication. And about, you know, positive coaching relationships. So, and that's something that I think that we often, you know, don't, don't always talk about coaching as, like a skill rather than just like the hard data of like, oh, you do a training log, you read, you know, you can do all the exercise physiology stuff, but how do you communicate, you know, how do you make an athlete feel like a sense of autonomy and, like, well-being within their training? So I yeah, definitely. There's some crossover.

[00:36:01] Tom Kelly: Man, this has really been amazing. Kelsey, I thank you so much for all the work you're doing. We're going to wrap it up with our final section called On Target. Sara, you got some fun questions to close us out with Kelsey Dickinson.

[00:36:14] Sara Donatello: We'll end with we'll end with five questions that hopefully will be relatively easy in the grand scheme of the questions that we've had for you today. We'll start with what's your favorite go-to airport snack?

[00:36:27] Kelsey Dickinson: Oh, airport snack. Oh, I mean, I would say coffee, but that's not really a snack. I think coffee.

[00:36:35] Sara Donatello: Can count as a snack.

[00:36:36] Kelsey Dickinson: Okay. Yeah, I would.

[00:36:37] Sara Donatello: Say coffee as well. Yeah, that's a good answer.

[00:36:41] Kelsey Dickinson: Coffee or, I don't know, Trail mix. Trail mix is always a good one.

[00:36:48] Sara Donatello: Love a good trail mix. Okay. Favorite memory from this past season?

[00:36:55] Kelsey Dickinson: Ooh. Favorite memory? I would have to say. Ooh. There's so many I'm just thinking of, like, whether it's racing or training. Um. Favorite memory would. Would have to be, I would say in Ridnaun, like in Italy for. I don't remember which number. IBU Cup it was. Maybe IBU Cup seven. We were there in … Paul got back on the podium with two third places in the sprint and the pursuit, and that was really cool because, um, I just remember back to I don't remember I think it was 2019. We had a IBU Cup season where it was like Paul and Jake and there, you know, other people. And it seemed like every weekend we were back in, we were in the flowers or had a podium. And I remember Paul had had a podium, I think, in Obertilliach, but it just brought that sort of, uh, that same, you know, sense of excitement and nostalgia. And it's really cool to see Paul have, um, success after dealing with injury and a lot of setbacks the last couple of years. So, yeah, I think, you know, as a team, it was really fun to celebrate his success that weekend.

[00:38:10] Sara Donatello: Yeah. He really had a phenomenal comeback this year. Okay. Next, uh, top song or artist on your playlist right now?

[00:38:20] Kelsey Dickinson: Oh, that's a good one. I really love the National. It's a kind of an alternative band. And they their most recent album, I sort of been listening to a lot. So that would that would have to be it.

[00:38:36] Sara Donatello: Awesome. Do you have a favorite hobby at the moment?

[00:38:41] Kelsey Dickinson: House projects. I have a lot of … Yeah. I also, I don't do it quite as much when I'm not on the road, but I have been knitting a lot, and I have friends that I'm sort of in that age where a lot of my friends are having babies. And so I've been working on making some baby sweaters. I also made one for one of our wax techs, um, his daughter. So it's fun. It's a fun way to, like, give, give little things, and keeps you busy on the road.

[00:39:09] Sara Donatello: So, yeah, that's great. I've heard knitting is a very big thing amongst the US Biathlon team. I love it.

[00:39:15] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah, it's very popular right now. We're all kind of doing it.

[00:39:18] Sara Donatello: That's great. That's great. Okay. Last question. You've obviously traveled to many places around the world. What's the weirdest food you've ever tried?

[00:39:27] Kelsey Dickinson: Oh. Weirdest food. Um. I'm trying. I'm just thinking, like, sort of the the recency effect I'm thinking about when we were in Estonia and, it was just it just strikes me, you know, it's not necessarily the weirdest food I've eaten, but, uh, we had that. We were staying at this really lovely, little, like, bed and breakfast called the William Willa in, Otepaa, Estonia. And the hosts there were, I mean, we were like, … felt like family with them. They were so awesome. And I remember one morning, you know, they would have this breakfast spread and they'd have, like, anchovies and all these different meats and things, and like, none of us were really eating any of it. And the kind of the mother, the host, came out, Crystal, one day and was just like, so why aren't you eating? You know, the sardines and, like, all of the meat, and so then we all felt like we needed to try them, you know, just to make them feel good. And I was like, this is not a breakfast food that I would choose, you know, for training or race mornings. But, uh, we felt like, you know, that we needed to at least, you know, honor them by trying some of this food. So I would say that's probably my most recent memory.

[00:40:45] Sara Donatello: That definitely qualifies as a weird food, specifically for that meal of the day.

[00:40:50] Kelsey Dickinson: Yeah. Yeah. It's not like I haven't, you know, had maybe anchovies a different time, but it just was, you know, for breakfast, it's a.

[00:40:57] Sara Donatello: Time and a place for anchovies. Definitely.

[00:41:00] Kelsey Dickinson: It's a bold choice. Yeah.

[00:41:01] Tom Kelly: I'm a big fan of anchovies.

[00:41:03] Kelsey Dickinson: Oh, my. My grandfather used to call them wigglies. And so he'd order a Caesar salad, and he'd say, I like it with extra wigglies. And I was, as a kid, I thought that was horrifying.

[00:41:16] Tom Kelly: I love that, fortunately, my wife does not like them. But when we get a Caesar salad, I say, up the anchovies. But breakfast? I'm not sure.

[00:41:24] Kelsey Dickinson: So yeah.

[00:41:25] Tom Kelly: Kelsey Dickinson, thank you so much for joining us. Sara Donatello, thank you for coming on as a co-host again.

[00:41:33] Sara Donatello: Yeah, thanks for having me again.

[00:41:35] Kelsey Dickinson: Thank you both for having me.